What is Hackers' Pub?

Hackers' Pub is a place for software engineers to share their knowledge and experience with each other. It's also an ActivityPub-enabled social network, so you can follow your favorite hackers in the fediverse and get their latest posts in your feed.

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That said, I think a lot of people think we can fight AI / LLM output on copyright grounds, and I actually think that's a losing strategy. Copyright almost always helps the big players, and it would here too!

You can see, they're already counting on and hoping it will be the case.

What the big players want is for copyright to apply to AI generated output because then *only* the big players can provide LLM services. See also Sam Altman's "running intelligence as a metered utility" pitch.

And the reason they could do this: *they* can make deals with Disney, Netflix, etc. But open models can't.

But what about all the "little guys" stuff? Well, when you sign that ToS on GitHub, Stack Overflow, DeviantArt, etc etc etc, all those places, you give them a right to your content too.

And THOSE places get to sell your rights.

So fighting on copyright grounds won't be an even playing field. It helps the big AI companies win.

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Oooh, a prior oil crisis is what turned the Netherlands from a driving country to a bicycling country.

The Guardian: Do we want to keep fixing the same issue? Unlearned lessons from the first big oil crisis

As energy prices tripled in the 1970s due to Middle Eastern wars, Scandinavia, France and the Netherlands sped up green transition

theguardian.com/environment/20

Dutch cycle lanes

โ€œHolland saddle-sore but fume freeโ€ was how Guardian editors headlined an article in November 1973 after oil price spikes led the Dutch government to ban cars on Sundays. The three-month measure was followed by a number of structural steps โ€“ from segregated cycle lanes to designing people-friendly cities โ€“ that got people on their bikes and out of vehicles that chugged foreign fuels.

โ€œThe decision of not using cars on Sundays made it clear that societies could do without them for one day,โ€ said Jan Wittenberg, the first chair of the Dutch Cyclistsโ€™ Union, which was founded 50 years ago. โ€œAnd it looked fantastic. There were picnics on motorways and kids playing in the street.โ€
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This little film helped me remember what I love about movies and film.

It's about a cat, and self discovery, I promise it will make your day better if you take some time out to watch it.

:)

(I've described the video in a reply to this post.)

youtube.com/watch?v=j4peeTNUEmU

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my favourite micro-community is the one that forms between folks with usernames prone to mis-tagging in GitHub issues. ๐Ÿค

Maybe we should get with the times and invite "tpu" too.

github username @gpu comments on an issue they were tagged in mistakenly, saying: "Although I was tagged rather accidentally here (that happens often, greetings to @cpu ), it somehow reminded me of an experiment that I made many years ago: http://jocl.org/GroovyGPU/ . Good luck with whatever you're building here ๐Ÿ‘"
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"Palantir CEO Alex Karp thinks his AI technology will lessen the power of โ€œhighly educated, often female voters, who vote mostly Democratโ€ while increasing the power of working-class men.

โ€œThis technology disrupts humanities-trainedโ€”largely Democraticโ€”voters, and makes their economic power less. And increases the economic power of vocationally trained, working-class, often male, working-class voters,โ€ Karp said in a CNBC interview Thursday. โ€œAnd so these disruptions are gonna disrupt every aspect of our society. And to make this work, we have to come to an agreement of what it is weโ€™re going to do with the technology; how are we gonna explain to people who are likely gonna have less good, and less interesting jobs.โ€ "

newrepublic.com/post/207693/pa

(the "vocationally trained working class, often male, working class voters" also stand to lose from types like Karp btw)

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Don't use LLM generated code in your projects yet! If for no other reason than that the legal case law is NOT ESTABLISHED YET.

I know there was the "copyright laundering" thing that went around a lot, but we actually don't know.

You'll see commenters everywhere on the internet say that "the US Supreme Court ruled that AI generated output is in the public domain". That's misinfo: they *declined to take on* a case from a lower court coming to that conclusion. The US Supreme Court hasn't yet ruled.

And this hasn't shaken out in an international setting yet either.

You may be surprised to hear: I actually think it's more dangerous and empowers centralized AI companies even more if it *isn't* the case that AI output is in the public domain (I'll follow up about that), but regardless, right now we just don't know.

But despite that, I'm STILL saying that you're putting yourself in legally dubious territory right now if you include LLM generated code, for now. We don't know yet.

That said, I think a lot of people think we can fight AI / LLM output on copyright grounds, and I actually think that's a losing strategy. Copyright almost always helps the big players, and it would here too!

You can see, they're already counting on and hoping it will be the case.

What the big players want is for copyright to apply to AI generated output because then *only* the big players can provide LLM services. See also Sam Altman's "running intelligence as a metered utility" pitch.

And the reason they could do this: *they* can make deals with Disney, Netflix, etc. But open models can't.

But what about all the "little guys" stuff? Well, when you sign that ToS on GitHub, Stack Overflow, DeviantArt, etc etc etc, all those places, you give them a right to your content too.

And THOSE places get to sell your rights.

So fighting on copyright grounds won't be an even playing field. It helps the big AI companies win.

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ใ‚‚ใฃใฅๆฐ็››ๅคงใซ็พๅƒใ‚„ใ‚‰ใ‹ใ—ใฆใŸโ€ฆ
ใ‚„ใฏใ‚Š่ฆๅฎš้‡ใง็พๅƒใ™ใ‚‹ใฎใฃใฆๅคงไบ‹ใชใ‚“ใ‚„ใชโ€ฆ

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์•„ ์˜ค๋Š˜ ๋ญ”๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋ž˜๋„ ๊ธ€ ์จ์ง€๋Š” ๋‚ ์ด์—ˆ๋‚˜๋ณด๋‹ค. ํผํผ์ฆˆ ์•ค์†” ๋„์ž…๋ถ€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿญ์ €๋Ÿญ ์ผ์Œ. 4์ฒœ์ž... ๋‚˜์˜์ง€ ์•Š์€ ์Šคํƒ€ํŠธ๋‹ค.

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@janlJan Lehnardt :couchdb: Indeed, people have gotten the mistaken impression that the licensing issues have been answered. THEY HAVEN'T YET! The US Supreme Court *declined to take on* a case which had ruled in a lower court that AI generated materials were in the public domain. And yet I am seeing *all over the place* people saying that the US Supreme Court said AI output is in the public domain. They didn't!

And outside the US, nothing is answered either! It's true that the US tends to set international precedent but we are *also* not in times where we can count on that, either.

@cwebberChristine Lemmer-Webber @janlJan Lehnardt :couchdb: On the legal side, I think folks are counting on the fact that so much money is behind the position that AI sufficiently launders copyright that there's little chance courts in the U.S. are going to rule otherwise. I don't *like* that position, because I think it's wrong on a number of levels -- but if I had to wager a paycheck on the outcome of a court case... that's the position I'd put the money on.

It seems unlikely that SCOTUS, for example, is ever going to rule against the monied class. The only way I see SCOTUS ruling the other way is if it's two money giants going toe-to-toe and the conservatives see some advantage in finding that AI-generated code infringes on copyright. Even then, I'd expect it to be a narrow, hard-to-generalize ruling.

But what do I know? I'm just trying to keep my head above water like most folks.

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Don't use LLM generated code in your projects yet! If for no other reason than that the legal case law is NOT ESTABLISHED YET.

I know there was the "copyright laundering" thing that went around a lot, but we actually don't know.

You'll see commenters everywhere on the internet say that "the US Supreme Court ruled that AI generated output is in the public domain". That's misinfo: they *declined to take on* a case from a lower court coming to that conclusion. The US Supreme Court hasn't yet ruled.

And this hasn't shaken out in an international setting yet either.

You may be surprised to hear: I actually think it's more dangerous and empowers centralized AI companies even more if it *isn't* the case that AI output is in the public domain (I'll follow up about that), but regardless, right now we just don't know.

But despite that, I'm STILL saying that you're putting yourself in legally dubious territory right now if you include LLM generated code, for now. We don't know yet.

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๊ธฐ์ƒ์ฒญ์ด โ€˜์ œ43ํšŒ ๊ธฐ์ƒ๊ธฐํ›„ ์‚ฌ์ง„ยท์ฝ˜ํ…์ธ  ๊ณต๋ชจ์ „โ€™ ์ˆ˜์ƒ์ž‘ 39์ ์„ ๋ฐœํ‘œํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. โ€˜์ผ์ƒ์˜ ๊ธฐ๋ก์œผ๋กœ ๊ธฐํ›„๋ฅผ ๋งํ•˜๋‹คโ€™๋ผ๋Š” ์ฃผ์ œ๋กœ ์˜ฌํ•ด 1์›”12์ผ~2์›”6์ผ ์ง„ํ–‰๋œ ๊ณต๋ชจ์ „์—๋Š” ์ด 3392์ ์˜ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์ด ์ ‘์ˆ˜๋์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋‘ ์ฐจ๋ก€์˜ ์ „๋ฌธ๊ฐ€ ํ‰๊ฐ€, ๋Œ€๊ตญ๋ฏผ ๊ณต๊ฐœ ๊ฒ€์ฆ, ๊ธฐ์ƒํ˜„์ƒ ๊ฒ€์ฆ ๋“ฑ์„ ๊ฑฐ์ณ ๋Œ€์ƒ(1์ ), ๊ธˆ์ƒ(1์ ), ์€์ƒ(2์ ), ๋™์ƒ(3์ ) ๋“ฑ ์ตœ์ข… ์ˆ˜์ƒ์ž‘๋“ค์ด ์„ ์ •๋์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๐Ÿ“ธ ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ์ง„ ๋ณด๋Ÿฌ ๊ฐ€๊ธฐ

์„ค์•…์‚ฐ์— ๋œฌ ๋ Œ์ฆˆ ๋ชจ์–‘ ๊ตฌ๋ฆ„โ€ฆ์ง€ํ˜•๊ณผ ๊ธฐ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ๋นš์–ด๋‚ธ โ€˜์ž...

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์•„์‹œ์•„์ถ•๊ตฌ์—ฐ๋งน(AFC) ์•„์‹œ์•ˆ์ปต ์ถœ์ „์ฐจ ์˜ค์ŠคํŠธ๋ ˆ์ผ๋ฆฌ์•„(ํ˜ธ์ฃผ)์— ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ๋ง๋ช… ์‹ ์ฒญ์„ ํ•œ ์ด๋ž€ ์—ฌ์ž์ถ•๊ตฌ ๋Œ€ํ‘œํŒ€ ์„ ์ˆ˜ ๊ฐ€์šด๋ฐ ํ•œ ๋ช…์ด ๋งˆ์Œ์„ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ” ์ด๋ž€ํ–‰ ๋น„ํ–‰๊ธฐ์— ๋ชธ์„ ์‹ค์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ด ์„ ์ˆ˜์˜ ์–ด๋จธ๋‹ˆ๋Š” ๋”ธ์„ ํ–ฅํ•ด โ€œ์ด๋ž€์— ๋Œ์•„์˜ค์ง€ ๋งˆ. ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋„ˆ๋ฅผ ์ฃฝ์ผ ๊ฑฐ์•ผโ€๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ์ „ํ•ด์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ง๋ช… ์ฒ ํšŒ ์ด๋ž€ ์„ ์ˆ˜โ€ฆ์—„๋งˆ์˜ โ€œ๋Œ์•„์˜ค์ง€๋งˆ, ๋„ ์ฃฝ์ผ ๊ฑฐ...

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I just saw a LinkedIN post from some principal security doofus at Microsoft being loud and wrong about large language models.

Serious question - given that Microslop has been producing trash code, which has been getting worse and worse over the last 30 years. Why do people still listen to them, or take them seriously? They wrote code so bad, it broke their text editor, why does anyone give credence to the things they say and write?

I'm sure it has to do with some combo of money and market share, but these clowns have been loud and wrong for three decades. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they are still doing it today. Maybe that's the one thing that has been consistent about them over the years? That and being run by monsters.

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Tempted to write a post that software development lost the plot a long time ago, and that the recent LLM developments are merely the icing on that cake. Software these days is not the painstaking work by people like @bagderdaniel:// stenberg:// or @hycHoward Chu @ Symas or @vitautvitaut ๐Ÿคโค๏ธ๐Ÿค ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ who write the best code they possibly can. Over the past decade, "the software world" has been developing in a very different way than that.

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๊ธฐ์ƒ์ฒญ์ด โ€˜์ œ43ํšŒ ๊ธฐ์ƒ๊ธฐํ›„ ์‚ฌ์ง„ยท์ฝ˜ํ…์ธ  ๊ณต๋ชจ์ „โ€™ ์ˆ˜์ƒ์ž‘ 39์ ์„ ๋ฐœํ‘œํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. โ€˜์ผ์ƒ์˜ ๊ธฐ๋ก์œผ๋กœ ๊ธฐํ›„๋ฅผ ๋งํ•˜๋‹คโ€™๋ผ๋Š” ์ฃผ์ œ๋กœ ์˜ฌํ•ด 1์›”12์ผ~2์›”6์ผ ์ง„ํ–‰๋œ ๊ณต๋ชจ์ „์—๋Š” ์ด 3392์ ์˜ ์ž‘ํ’ˆ์ด ์ ‘์ˆ˜๋์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋‘ ์ฐจ๋ก€์˜ ์ „๋ฌธ๊ฐ€ ํ‰๊ฐ€, ๋Œ€๊ตญ๋ฏผ ๊ณต๊ฐœ ๊ฒ€์ฆ, ๊ธฐ์ƒํ˜„์ƒ ๊ฒ€์ฆ ๋“ฑ์„ ๊ฑฐ์ณ ๋Œ€์ƒ(1์ ), ๊ธˆ์ƒ(1์ ), ์€์ƒ(2์ ), ๋™์ƒ(3์ ) ๋“ฑ ์ตœ์ข… ์ˆ˜์ƒ์ž‘๋“ค์ด ์„ ์ •๋์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๐Ÿ“ธ ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ์ง„ ๋ณด๋Ÿฌ ๊ฐ€๊ธฐ

์„ค์•…์‚ฐ์— ๋œฌ ๋ Œ์ฆˆ ๋ชจ์–‘ ๊ตฌ๋ฆ„โ€ฆ์ง€ํ˜•๊ณผ ๊ธฐ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ๋นš์–ด๋‚ธ โ€˜์ž...

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