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@julian There are several dozens of actively maintained ActivityPub implementations, I think it is not difficult to find two implementers among them, especially if they will be paid to implement a proposed change / extension (as we have seen with the E2EE proposal).

@slyborg @evanEvan Prodromou @connected-places @fediversereportConnected Places @ArneBab @alexchapman

@joergiJörgi What may appear as a bug is really a consequence of the liberal and wide open configuration/driver options, for example postgres.

Or not properly configuring permissions.

These are not bugs, the one DM bug you reported is actually more complicated than you think, we adopt the same addressing that Mastodon does, so don't mention someone that you don't want the DM to be sent to.

@caterpillar @stefanStefan Bohacek @ErickaSimone yes, I agree, the dominance of Mastodon does tilt both perception and reality of safety features. I hope that the various platforms here do learn from each other

@caterpillar @stefanStefan Bohacek @ErickaSimone sure. I'd rather be in a place that has both good visibility controls and good interaction controls than in a place with only one of them

How many Fediverse software use Markdown as its default text format — rather than HTML?

I think both PeerTube and Lemmy are Markdown native — rather than HTML.

Anything else?

#FediDev #FediDevs #Fediverse #Markdown

Mastodon may expose followers-only posts to public. Is it a feature or a bug?

For example, this reply is addressed to the followers collection (to) and the mentioned user (cc):

https://not-brain.d.on-t.work/notes/admrkcvj3hfn5crj

But Mastodon says the reply is "public". Anyone can view it in this thread:

https://neuromatch.social/@jonny/115343446216492915

#Iceshrimp also doesn't require authorization, but you need to know the post ID to view it.

@kopperkopper Did you know about this?

UPDATE: https://not-brain.d.on-t.work/notes/admrkcvj3hfn5crj is now addressed to public; apparently its audience was being modified by the originating instance depending on the delivery target.

@ricci@discuss.systemsRob Ricci I will echo this same offer for up to two communities! I'll do the install, maintenance, upkeep, and keep the lights on. I have the automation to be able to run any of these:
- Mastodon
- Pixelfed
- GoToSocial
- Sharkey
- Akkoma
- Bonfire

And for that matter if anyone wants to take over any of these existing instances that I stood up for testing and am currently the only user on they're yours:
- gts.lgbt (GoToSocial)
- akkoma.lgbt (Akkoma and Mangane frontend)
- bonfire.lgbt (Bonfire social flavor)

And before I get corrected, I did mean Mastodon specifically, see https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan/115311686596809608.

Likely this is the case for all of the fediverse, but https://fedidb.com doesn't go far back enough to fairly compare.

@stefanStefan Bohacek

What is too long/too short?

I must learn more about the rules of the capitalization police.

Oops, I shouldn't have posted those images in replies as public. Anyway, 833 out of 836 images with alttext ain't so bad.

And now getting to the point: how am I supposed to help with testing?

@jupiter_rowland Hey Jupiter, I usually appreciate your advocacy for the non-Mastodon Fediverse, but let's stick to the truth.

1. The spec was developed openly, with input from the ActivityPub community: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/pre-fep-quote-posts-quote-policies-and-quote-controls/5031
2. Its schema was invented by GoToSocial: https://docs.gotosocial.org/en/stable/federation/interaction_policy/
3. It is compatible with quotes from Misskey, Pixelfed, etc. that do not require permission (mainly self-quotes).
4. There are already three other implementations in GoToSocial, Smithereen, and dotmakeup.

post was written as reply in thread announced discontinuation of queer.party instance, but Original Post of Topic Starter lost #queer.party #queerparty
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@maffsie

that wouldn't be the case if queer.party was really decentralized #p2p like freenet, hyphanet, scuttlebutt manyverse tildefriends, #web3, (or at lame case #nostr)
So refugees are welcomed to try those.

There is also promising project AutonomiDweb, but I haven't seen any users posting content there.

You could also try http://mitra.social & #hubzilla , both should have nomadic identities.

Follow me & boost if you interested in sutainable decentralized tech.

#Mastadon is trying to be #Twitter, but I'm not a Twitter person, and need better options to digest/navigate my incoming Feed.
So I'm thinking about some decent #activitypub based alternatives.
how Mitra social compares vs (streams) ? (summoning @silverpill & #hubzilla avatar astral projection guy, I forgot his name)
Or what should I know about #pleroma #akkoma #Misskey #lemmy , before investing in them ?

@ricciRob Ricci

To be clear: the active user base of Hubzilla probably numbers less than 1000, and those of (streams) and Forte far far smaller than that; so in your plots, their exclusion/inclusion is not going to be visually discernible to anyone. At present, it will not affect any inferences one may draw from your plots.

But for the sake of completeness, you may want to consider these questions.

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Fediverse #Bluesky #Threads #Hubzilla #(streams) #Forte

(continues)

@ricciRob Ricci

Forte certainly qualifies as part of the Fediverse, by any criteria. So you will definitely have to worry about counting each channel of any account on a Forte instance, and about not counting clones of that channel.

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Fediverse #Bluesky #Threads #Hubzilla #(streams) #Forte

(continues)

@ricciRob Ricci

The author of Hubzilla and (streams) also developed the ActivityPub-based Forte, which has nomadic identity, with all of the properties described above.

https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte/

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Fediverse #Bluesky #Threads #Hubzilla #(streams) #Forte

(continues)

@ricciRob Ricci

So if you are including Hubzilla and (streams) users, you will have to worry about counting each channel for an account, but not counting any of the clones of a given channel. Are you doing that?

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Fediverse #Bluesky #Threads #Hubzilla #(streams) #Forte

(continues)

@ricciRob Ricci

This also raises another question. Hubzilla and (streams) both have nomadic identity, so a user can have multiple clones of a channel across different instances, and activity on any one of those gets mirrored across all the clones. And an account on an instance can have multiple channels—a channel is what participates in the Fediverse.

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Fediverse #Bluesky #Threads #Hubzilla #(streams) #Forte

(continues)

@ricciRob Ricci

Are you counting the user base from instances which run software such as Hubzilla or (streams)—specifically, software that is NOT based on ActivityPub—but which federate with all the instances running ActivityPub-based software such as Mastodon?

If yes/no, why?

For context, the present mandarins of the ActivityPub world do not count Hubzilla or (streams) as parts of the Fediverse.

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Fediverse #Bluesky #Threads #Hubzilla #(streams) #Forte

(continues)

@ricciRob Ricci

You mention elsewhere that for your plots quantifying Fediverse decentralization, you (want to) count only those Threads users that federate with other instances running ActivityPub-based software. In contrast, Eugen Rochko seems to count any instance running software that natively speaks ActivityPub as part of the Fediverse.

Hence my curiosity questions below about some other software.

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Fediverse #Bluesky #Threads #Hubzilla #(streams) #Forte

(continues)

@julian So all this is just an elaborate ploy to convince Mastodon devs to display summary? It might make sense, but then I don't understand why it is presented as a protocol problem.

The FEP won't make any difference. I've spent of lot of time tweaking my software in order to make rich content look good across the Fediverse (including Mastodon), and I can confidently say that Long form text FEP is not helpful at all. It is a mix of obvious requirements (which are already present in AP & AS), some arbitrary recommendations (like the set of allowed tags), and bad ideas (like the preview property). This is because it is not written by a developer: the author simply doesn't know what needs to be done in order to render an article across 10 different implementations.

When it comes to long form content, the best resource is @helge 's support tables. For example, there is an analysis of what HTML tags are supported in Article.content: https://funfedi.dev/support_tables/generated/html_tags_article/

No one talks about this project, but it is far more useful than anything done so far by the so called "longformers".

@developer @mikedevMike Macgirvin 🖥️ @jupiter_rowland @feb

Long-form articles

I was reading the Fediverse Report – #128 post by @laurenshof and several sentences caught my attention:

Ghost’s connection to the fediverse currently means that following a Ghost blog from your fediverse account results in seeing a post with the article headline and a URL

That's how Mastodon displays Article objects: only a headline and a URL (see issue #24079). However, Mastodon is the only fediverse platform that removes content from articles. According to funfedi.dev data, others don't remove content:

https://funfedi.dev/support_tables/generated/object_types/

GoToSocial, Hollo, Misskey, Mitra, Pleroma. These platforms either have full support for long form content or use graceful degradation. The dataset doesn't include some other popular platforms like Friendica, but I am sure they also display long form content just fine. So this really has nothing to do with Fediverse or #ActivityPub.

Fediverse platform developers (including Mastodon, Ghost, WordPress, WriteFreely and more) are collaborating on creating a space on the fediverse that suites the need of blogging and articles well

I keep seeing this again and again, it increasingly looks like an attempt to take credit for solving the problem with articles in ActivityPub. But the problem doesn't exist, it is literally a flaw in a single implementation that can be fixed with a single line of code.

There are, of course, real problems with rich content. How to prevent tracking when remote media is embedded in the page? What to do with CSS? What about interactive content? Unfortunately, I haven't seen anyone talking about these problems.

This is a long form article, by the way. You can read it from Mastodon.

@benpateBen Pate 🤘🏻
> It’s all speculation in the absence of a C2S API that developers want to use

The main reason devs haven't wanted to use the C2S API in the AP spec is network effect. Clients devs don't want to use it because Mastodon doesn't, and servers devs don't want to use it because their services wouldn't work with all the clients following the Mastodon API.

But there are a bunch of projects now implementing AP C2S. I'm sure I've seen a list somewhere, maybe on SocialHub?

@jupiter_rowland

@jupiter_rowland

I didn't know Hubzilla had been doing quote-posts for so long — very cool.

I know Misskey and its various forks have had quote-posts working for a while, too.

I think also Pleroma and Akkoma have, too.

Mastodon is the latest to add support for quote-posts, not the first. But, I am happy that Mastodon has it.

...

Mastodon's quote-posts seems Twitter-like, so I suppose that is as intended (if that is what you meant).

Coming soon in #BotKit 0.2.0: Native #quote post support!

We're excited to share a preview of the upcoming quoting features in BotKit 0.2.0. This update will make it easier for your bots to engage with quoted content across the fediverse.

The quoting feature set includes:

• Detecting when someone quotes your bot's posts with the new Bot.onQuote event handler
• Accessing quoted content through the Message.quoteTarget property
• Creating quote posts using the quoteTarget option in Session.publish() and Message.reply() methods

Here's a quick example of how you can use the quote detection:

bot.onQuote = async (session, quote) => {
  // The quote parameter is a Message object representing the post that quoted your bot
  await quote.reply(text`Thanks for quoting my post, ${quote.actor}!`);
  
  // You can access the original quoted message
  const originalPost = quote.quoteTarget;
  console.log(`Original message: ${originalPost?.text}`);
};

And creating quote posts is just as simple:

// Quote in a new post
await session.publish(
  text`I'm quoting this interesting message!`,
  { quoteTarget: someMessage }
);

// Or quote in a reply
await message.reply(
  text`Interesting point! I'm quoting another relevant post here.`,
  { quoteTarget: anotherMessage }
);

Remember that quoting behavior may vary across different #ActivityPub implementations—some platforms like Misskey display quotes prominently, while others like Mastodon might implement them differently.

Want to try these features right now? You can install the development version from JSR:

deno add jsr:@fedify/botkit@0.2.0-dev.90+d6ab4bdc

We're looking forward to seeing how you use these quoting capabilities in your bots!

#fedidev

@GossiTheDogKevin Beaumont "Mastodon" really needs to get cracking on full data portability, IMHO.

It's a shame this hasn't been pushed higher up on the list of things to do.

I think many people have invested quite a bit of time and effort into their posts and profiles, and moving all that data, or somehow managing a switch-over doesn't seem to be that simple, if at all possible.

#mastodon #portability #dataportability #fediverse